In this bonus episode, author Jessica Elefante returns to discuss how to use your powers of influence for good, the importance of setting limits and boundaries, how people with small businesses (including authors, journalists, and clinicians with private practices) can sell our products/services without using undue influence, and more.
is a writer andShe is the author of Raising Hell, Living Well: Freedom from Influence in a World Where Everyone Wants Something from You (Ballantine, 2023) which she coined a How-Come (not a How-To). Jessica’s writing works to open people’s eyes on the topics of technology, capitalism, influence, and motherhood and has appeared in The Guardian, Literary Hub, Huffington Post, Bustle, Simplify Magazine, the Dispatch, Whalebone Magazine and more. As the founder of acclaimed Folk Rebellion and a critic of today's culture, Elefante’s award-winning works shine a light on the untenability of our times and have been featured by Vogue, Inc., Los Angeles Times, The Observer, Writer’s Digest, Vice, Paper Mag, Wired, and elsewhere. Her short documentary “What Day Is It?” was awarded semi-finalist of Flickers RIIFF and an Official Selection of Beverly Hills Film Festival and New York Shorts Film Festival, for its portrayal of a mother's perspective on the ever-shifting emotional and mental states of lockdown. In her previous life as a brand strategist, she was recognized on Brand Innovators “40 under 40” list for winning her clients industry recognition including Webby, Edison, and AdAge awards. Jess has proudly been a guest lecturer at Columbia Business School and New York University sharing her expertise in entrepreneurship and branding. She's influenced by the social, cultural, and technological circumstances of her life, but mostly, of her desire to lead a colorful one. Raised in upstate New York, she now lives in Brooklyn with her family. She is no longer bullshitting. Find her online at jessicaelefante.com.
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Christy's second book, The Wellness Trap, is available wherever books are sold! Order it online or ask for it in your favorite local bookstore.
If you're looking to make peace with food and break free from diet and wellness culture, come check out Christy's Intuitive Eating Fundamentals online course.
Resources and References
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Jessica’s book, Raising Hell, Living Well: Freedom from Influence in a World Where Everyone Wants Something from You (Including Me)
Christy’s new book, The Wellness Trap: Break Free from Diet Culture, Disinformation, and Dubious Diagnoses and Find Your True Well-Being
Christy’s online course, Intuitive Eating Fundamentals
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Transcript
Disclaimer: The below transcription is primarily rendered by AI, so errors may have occurred. The original audio file is available above.
Christy Harrison: Hey there. Welcome to this bonus episode of Rethinking Wellness.
Christy Harrison: Hey there. Welcome to this bonus episode of Rethinking Wellness. I'm Christy, and my guest today is author, Jessica Elefante, who's back for round two to discuss influence. We talk about how to use your powers of influence for good, the importance of setting limits and boundaries, how people with small businesses, including authors, journalists, and clinicians with private practices, a.k.a people like me and maybe you, can sell our products and services without using undue influence, and more. It's a great conversation. I love talking with Jess, and I can't wait to share it with you. So without any further ado, here's my bonus interview with Jessica Elefante.
So, Jess, welcome back. Thank you so much for sticking around for this bonus episode.
Jessica Elefante: My pleasure.
Christy Harrison: So one thing I wanna dig into, we talked a little bit sort of around this when we were talking about being authors in the main episode. But I'm curious what your take is for people with small businesses, like authors and Substack writers and clinicians, you know, with private practices, like, that's a lot of who listens to this podcast. There's a significant contingent of dietitians and therapists and authors and journalists and, you know, people who are, like, in business for themselves. And, you know, I fall into those categories too. And so I'm curious, like, how you see people in those spaces being able to sell our products and services without undue influence, without using these sorts of tactics that are so common in the larger culture.
Jessica Elefante: Well, I think, one, if they're already listening to you or following along in any way, then they're probably already really respectful of their clients, and I think that's the most important thing is, you know, in I'll use tech for an example, they call us, their clients, users. Right? We're users. And putting the humanity back in the people who are utilizing your products or services. They're people. They're humans. They're not users. Right? So even, you know, the term "clients" is like, oh, it's this other. Right? And so just humanizing everyone as much as possible allows you to respect them a little bit more. And so I say that that's why I led with I'm sure that everyone listening to this right now already does.
But once you think of it in terms of influence, that means to try to operate from a place of transparency a little more often. And so I know when you have a business, there's all these entrepreneurship courses or sales programs or, you know, special initiatives that we've all, we've read these books. We've studied these things. We've paid for these courses that teaches us how to get someone to do the thing that we want them to do, whether that is make a change in their own life or sign up for a program that is then going to help them make a change in their own life. And so it comes a lot back to respect and transparency. And so I, myself, no longer using scarcity tactics. Right? Like, “there's only this many” or “get it while it lasts.”
Again, that's my comfort zone because I did that for so long, and I understand the mechanics of persuasion at play, and I'm not comfortable with that. And so understanding, like, a lot of these tactics were designed based off of a human's biology and how our minds and our feelings work and so when you are taking a course or reading a book about increasing sales or profits, you're learning how to modify someone's thinking, feeling, or biology to get them to do the thing you want them to do. And understanding, again, and there's so many layers of influence the person who made that course or wrote that book is trying to help you too and so you just have to really, I guess, think, you know, what do you feel okay with? What is a change you can make tomorrow to respect your clients more or to provide them more transparency? What I am finding, and this is me on the other side selling a book. I am selling a book. I want people to buy my book. Of course, I do because I want them to read it.
I am telling them in you know, if I had presales, I was like, "This is why I am doing this. I am hoping that you do this and that influences that." Or if I did a free gift, I said, this is called, you know, likability. Right? Or there's this reciprocity that happens of because you are doing this, I am doing this as a thank you. It's like, I let people know what I was doing as I was doing it because of what the book was about. I don't think that your listeners need to do that. But if you just start to understand what those tactics are and where they came from and knowing how much that does impact your potential or already clients and sometimes, the most honest way is the best way.
Instead of sitting in a room with someone trying to sign them up for future meetings or whatever your services that you provide and doing it in a way that maybe How to Win Friends and Influence People or The Art of Persuasion taught you to do, which is to sit a certain way and say certain things and get to, you know, get to the no and answer it, speak wholeheartedly instead about why it is you do what you do and why it would impact them if they did, you know, sign up for your expertise. And I think people are really looking for that authenticity in today's overly promoted, overly marketed, overly manipulated world and knowing that the person who's trying to sell them something, that they're intrinsically motivated to do good and help them might actually move the needle more.
Christy Harrison: Yeah. That's a really great point. I feel like that's what has worked well for me too, you know, when I sort of strip away any of the, like, tactics and stuff and just speak from the heart.
Jessica Elefante: Yeah. All the jargon, the, you know, link below, you know, there's just so many tactics. And so I think coming back from a real place of, you know, another overused word, but authenticity.
Christy Harrison: What about the realities of capitalism in all this? Right? Because, you know, as you said yourself, like, you really started to be successful once you learned all these tactics and started to use them for corporations. And, you know, I think a lot of people listening have probably chosen a different path, and you've chosen a different path now too of not doing that and sort of doing something on a smaller scale. But we all live under capitalism. We all have to make a living. You know, obviously, there's different family arrangements and stuff that people can have support from a partner or whatever. But, you know, at the end of the day, like, we all still have a bottom line. And so how do you think about that piece with all of this? Like, staying true to your values and not using undue influence while also making a living?
